All It Takes Is A Goal

ATG 19: Part 1 - Greg McKeown & how to make the essential things in your life the easiest things

May 16, 2021 Jon Acuff Season 1 Episode 19
All It Takes Is A Goal
ATG 19: Part 1 - Greg McKeown & how to make the essential things in your life the easiest things
Show Notes Transcript

Have you ever convinced yourself that to achieve a big goal, it has to be painfully difficult or it doesn’t count?

There aren’t many people that take committing to the essential things in life more seriously than Greg McKeown. Maybe you’ve heard him on the What’s Essential podcast, read his book million-selling book Essentialism. He’s a fountain of wisdom, and in this special two-part episode, he’s sharing the secret to effortlessly accomplish the goals that are most important to you. Sound too good to be true? Listen in for this incredible conversation and stay tuned for part two!

Find out more about Greg and his new book, Effortless, at his website. Catch up with his podcast What's Essential.

Follow Jon on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook.

Order Soundtracks, Jon's newest book available wherever you find quality books!

Jon Acuff:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the All it takes is a goal podcast the best place in the entire world, including all of Canada to learn how to build new thoughts, new actions and new results. I'm your host, Jon Acuff, and today is a very special episode because it's actually part one of a two parter. Two episodes in the same week? That's double the content right there. It's, it's true. It's amazing. Today is part one of my interview with Greg McKeown. I'm going to tell you all about Greg in just a minute. But first, today's episode is brought to you by Medi-Share. Have you guys ever had buyer's remorse? You know that feeling of intense regret because the thing you thought you just had to have was only something used once or twice? For me it was the time I bought a really expensive road bike because I thought I was going to get into cycling. I proceeded to hang it on the wall in my garage and feel ashamed for six months. Well, I know some of you are experiencing buyer's remorse right now for something much more frustrating. You know what I'm talking about. It's the healthcare you rushed to get during open enrollment last December. Well, I have some good news for you. You've probably heard me talking about our main sponsor for this podcast, Medi-Share. And these guys have the answer to healthcare buyer's remorse. Check this out, members of Medi-Share save up to 50% or more per month on their health care costs. They say the typical family saves up to $500 per month. And here's the best part, you can become a member at any time. So that means it isn't too late to ditch your buyer's remorse and switch to a more affordable health care that will save you money and help you sleep better at night. If this is your first time you're hearing about Medi-Share, it is the best alternative to health insurance that allows you to share the burden of medical bills, offers access to 900,000 plus health care providers, and has a proven 25 year track record. Plus in addition to saving hundreds per month, as a member of Medi-Share, you will also have access to free telehealth and free telecounseling. You won't find that with any traditional health insurance provider. Guys, it only takes two minutes to see how much you could save. Go investigate that for yourself and your family at Medi-Share.com/Jon. That's Medi-Share.com/Jon. Remember Jon doesn't have an H in it. So it's a M-E-D-I, that's Medi, share, S-H-A-R-E dot com slash J-O-N. All right, who is Greg McKeown. Greg is a speaker, a best selling author and the host of the popular podcast What's Essential. He has been covered by the New York Times, Fast Company, Fortune, Politico, and Inc. And he's been interviewed on NPR, NBC, Fox, and the Steve Harvey Show. He is also among the most popular bloggers for LinkedIn and is a young global leader for the World Economic Forum. McKeown's New York Times best selling book, Essentialism, the disciplined pursuit of less, has sold more than a million copies worldwide. Originally from London, England. He now lives in California with his wife, Anna and their four children. He also has a brand new book out right now called Effortless that I absolutely love. Why is this episode going to be two parts? Because there's so much in it. This thing is bursting at the seams. Is it bursting at the seams or busting? It's doing whatever means there's a lot in it. And even though I've never done a two parter, this felt like the perfect time. So here's part one of my conversation with Greg. Greg, thank you so much for joining me my first question right out of the gate is I was on your podcast, What's Essential, and then the very next episode was Matthew McConaughey. So is it fair to tell people that I opened for Matthew McConaughey?

Greg McKeown:

Yes.

Jon Acuff:

That's I can say that?

Greg McKeown:

I think so.

Jon Acuff:

Okay, well, you're you're friends with him. So if he's gonna get mad, it's not going to be at me.

Greg McKeown:

I feel I feel like, you know, we might never have got McConaughey if it wasn't for you.

Jon Acuff:

Oh, you think I opened the door? He was like,"Wait a second."

Greg McKeown:

He said it. He said, "Anyone who can get Jon Acuff, I gotta be there. That is where I'm going to be. It's a clear yes."

Jon Acuff:

That's what pushes PR people?

Greg McKeown:

Yes. He said,"Soundtracks man, the author of Soundtracks. It's good. We want to follow him"

Jon Acuff:

I love that is going to be on my next book. "Via Greg's mouth, Matthew McConaughey liked this book." I'm not it's hard to sell books these days. You got to do any edge you can get.

Greg McKeown:

Any edge. Any edge works.

Jon Acuff:

So the thing I love, we're going to talk about Effortless your brand new book, which came out just recently, we're going to talk a little about Essentialism. The thing I'm curious about, your book Essentialism sold a million copies, which is wicked impossible. I grew up in New England, that's the word "very" for us. When you looked at it and said, "Here's the three reasons or here's what I'd point to," you know, or were there general things that happened? It doesn't sound like there was one thing like, none of us have been on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon and he's like "I read your book in the dentist's office and it changed my life." So I want you I want you to be with The Roots. Like what happened that made that book kind of, over the last few years, continue to be such a great seller?

Greg McKeown:

Well, I mean, I think it's about writing something that's relevant. But it's to do it in a way that it's timeless, if you can. So actually, one of the things that made Essentialism, sort of hard to get off the ground in the first place is, well, I wasn't writing like about politics or about, you know, some urgent thing, I was just talking, in fact, to an author that wrote, you know, a great book, it was about technology. And think I can say who it was, it's Brad Smith, who wrote the book Tools and Weapons. He's the president of Microsoft. And he was just talking about this. He was like,"You know, Essentialism's like relevant now as when it came out," whereas he's just spent a period of time writing three new chapters, because technology has gone on so fast since he wrote it. So there is a sort of back, well, so what I'm looking for, there's like a relationship that the more relevant it is right now, like the most news-leaning book, will be the fastest out of fashion.

Jon Acuff:

Sure, sure. Fastest out of date. It's really hard for that minute, but a year later, it feels

Greg McKeown:

Yes. And I think Essentialism just tapped into something that was, it was a pain of our period. And for good, or ill, I don't see that changing anytime soon. And so Essentialism's had an unusual path, because normally is very predictable journey goes, you know, try, try and go as big as you can at the beginning. And then it dies off. And the question is

Jon Acuff:

Slowly watch your failure. Slowly watch a hill of failure.

Greg McKeown:

And Essentialism just hasn't been like that. Essentialism has either been flat or slightly up over those years. And so I think it's about that relevance. I think it's just about something that's perennial and relevant. At the same time, I have to just go, I don't know. You know, like this part of it that you just don't know. You're trying to listen, you're trying to pay attention to what people, you know, what's going on in their minds. I am writing for the reader. I'm trying to channel and to understand that to be empathetic to them. I think it's the number one mistake authors make is to write with their own mind in mind. And, you know, they What does the world need? I'm gonna give them what they need, rather than what they want. What do they want? Because it's a pain point. I don't know if I've got three points. I feel like I've somehow stumbled around with two,

Jon Acuff:

I think the the author thing is, if it's, if I'm the only audience, it's a great way to sell one book. Like if it's, if it's, you know, like through my filter of how will this help me the author, and I haven't, I mean, you talk about Effortless.

Greg McKeown:

So I don't mean to interrupt, but I was just want to say, if you did what you just said, you might still write a decent book. But what I think the real problem is, is you say,"I think the world needs this." That's the worst thing. The world needs this thing. And I'm going to give the world what they need. And I'm so passionate. It's not even quite what do I want right now? You're not even writing well for yourself. You're just writing for this general, "I think the world needs" rather than like,"well, people don't buy what they need, they buy what they want." And so you've got to really understand that audience and care about them. And like,"Where are they at? Oh, they're burned out. Oh, where are they at? They're exhausted. Oh, where are they at? They're overthinking." You've got to be in their heads where their world is, and then present them with something that someone goes instantly when they see it, "I need, like, I want that right now!" An almost physical reaction. So I'm gonna give a third thing, which is the graphics and the graphical treatment. So I'm obsessive about this. And I could just be wrong about it. I don't know. But I'm obsessive about covers and titles

Jon Acuff:

You've got a million bucks of proof right now. I mean, like, so

Greg McKeown:

We'll see.

Jon Acuff:

You can continue to be wrong about new things. You're not wrong about Essentialism.

Greg McKeown:

Well, yeah, I mean, it's nice of you to say. I mean, with Effortless so new out, we'll see. We'll see.

Jon Acuff:

Yeah, sure.

Greg McKeown:

Whether any of the things I think I know, I know or whether they you know, they again, they were just just an unconscious competence or something. But I obsess about the cover. Obsess about the title, obsess about that for this very precise reason, because it's the very first thing and it always will be that a reader sees and experiences. And so it's often in a business book genre, that the cover is an afterthought. Even the title can sometimes be an afterthought, that you can get a cover that's a text treatment. Most business books are in fact. But it just feels like something's off about that. Like, this is the thing. This is where they begin their journey. And so I'm particularly obsessed about, about that.

Jon Acuff:

Yeah, I think one of the things that somebody told me once was that you should be clever and clear with a cover. But if you can only be one, be clear. I think great covers hit both. There's cleverness there that invites you in, it entices you. But it's clear what it's about. Versus there's times where I'll see covers that go,"Oh, that was really cool for the author." Like that was really creative, but it didn't serve the end reader who was confused, and you're not next to them to explain the concept every time somebody is at an airport. And you go "No no no no, it's a play on this thing that happened to me in chapter seven. And if you get to chapter seven, you'll get it."

Greg McKeown:

I saw something you put on Twitter, just I think it is the last day or two. And you were just stating like, the first thing is like, think about the reader. "What's in it for me?" from the readers point of view. And I think that is it. Somebody once told me, they said"Don't write a book that nobody wants to read." Best advice I have ever had on writing. It's like, that's the problem is that, is that you get into what is the needs, what the world need? But it's like do they want to read this? Do they want it? Is there some What's in it for them? If you can't articulate that, then if you can't as the author, what are you hoping someone else will figure it out?

Jon Acuff:

You say to the reader, "You figure this out. Yeah, good luck." You figure it out. I couldn't find the through line, you find the through line. So I'm curious. You talk about, you know, the last couple years, you've been on a listening tour. You've got you know, that's part of where Effortless came out of was going on this listening tour. I love that phrase. I'm curious from your perspective. When you're listening, you're at an event, you're in a conversation with another author, or you're in a group of people, or even just you're by yourself and you have an idea, How does that idea go from idea you have or idea you heard, need you heard, to it's in a book. Like walk me through your capture system, your process, like, because I think there's a lot of people that have ideas, but they never make it to a page. What's your system like?

Greg McKeown:

Most of my thoughts go to a paper journal first. So my journal doesn't look, I don't know, doesn't look like most people's journal maybe. I have my daily entries. But I also have just lots of scribbles and ideas, random, so that there's a place I can get back to them if I want to. That's the first capture. Second capture is to use social media is a you know, I think social media makes a good server but a poor master and using it to test all the time. And it certainly, certainly if I'm like in a, okay, I'm in a writing mode. Because, you know, just because an idea is interesting to me, just because I go "Oh, that's, that's interesting. I've never thought about it that way. Something's fresh about that" doesn't mean it will trigger the same way for somebody else. For a lot of people. And so the difference between something that's interesting to me, and something that's interesting to a lot of people is fascinating to me. So I'm always wanting to test it there. Once I find that something is resonating, I'll then write an article about it, and try and choose a title that goes with it. Again, all of this is testing. And that certainly happened with Essentialism. I was more deliberate on that with Essentialism than I think I've been with Effortless. But with the Essentialism, I was did exactly what I just described and the place I was writing was LinkedIn or Harvard Business Review. And then you just, I mean, on LinkedIn at the time, it doesn't happen this work this way now, but you'd have hugely viral articles, all based upon the title of your piece. And so you've got this tremendous chance to test titles, and one on HBR, that went viral was called The Disciplined Pursuit of Less. And that had so many more comments and reviews. And in reading that, that like just established, okay, that is a phrase people relate to. And so this is all this testing. So that as you're constructing ideas, those ideas feel resonant and relevant, that they name things for people in a fresh, new, and hearable way. I mean, in a sense, I would call this like, something like tactical empathy or strategic empathy or something like that. Where you are, you aren't putting the pressure on yourself to know that you don't know. You just accept your doubt. And you say,"Well, you teach me." I'm going to try and do my job thinking and putting ideas together. And I want you to do your job, which is to tell me which things are relevant and which aren't. And as you as you help me with that. Now the Essentialism community helps you with that. It gives you language back that you can construct so that what you give in the end is really useful to the people you're trying to serve.

Jon Acuff:

I love that and it's so true. My process is similar to that. You mentioned the word pressure. I'm curious, from an author perspective, do you feel pressure to top Essentialism? And we talked about this when we talked earlier on your podcast, you know, there's a gap of seven years between the two books. I know every public like your book, and you know, I'm not trying to over compliment you. But what you did is unique and amazing in a world where books just don't sell like they used to sell. So I know publishers were calling every month saying,"Hey, you know, what would be dope? Like, Essentialism Junior or like part two, this time, it's personal. This one has a shark." Like, give us a brief Essentialism. Like I know that was part of there was some pressure there because when something does well, we want to repeat it. My kids said "Dad why is there a Pirates of the Caribbean part five?" I said, until it stops making money. They're gonna find a new ocean.

Greg McKeown:

They're making a billion dollars every time they make those movies. So it doesn't it's a strange problem. Because then you, but the risk is there too. Because I mean, I don't know if everyone else agrees. But like, you know, number three, four, five, they're not as good as number one.

Jon Acuff:

It's a thing. You're photocopying a single idea. And by the fifth time you photocopied it, it's not as good. But did you do you feel current pressure about "Okay, I have to top that," or is that part of you going "You know what, I'm living effortless. And so that changes my ability to share work?"

Greg McKeown:

Yeah, I have, I have felt a mix of all of them. Right now in this conversation, this week, I have felt at peace. But that is not my I have struggled with feeling worry and fear. Fear of, I mean, the legitimate fear is like, don't write a rubbish book. That's the only legitimate thing and even fear's a strong word.

Jon Acuff:

People will let you. If you sold a million copies of a book, people will let you write a bad book.

Greg McKeown:

That is exactly what will happen. And so people will let you write a bad book. And you can point to this. I mean, authors that I love, some of my favorite authors, you can just point to how that happened. And how nobody said, "Listen, that book needs to be 200 pages shorter." Right, like 200 pages shorter. If you could just cut that up and write, those are two or three different books. And you've tried to make that one thing. I just spoke to somebody just recently who's a family member of an author who I love. And they said, "Well, this, this book that they wrote, was rewritten like five or six times, five or six versions. The problem is they're all in that book."

Jon Acuff:

That's such a great way to say it.

Greg McKeown:

And that is exactly true. I know the book. love and slightly hate it fo exactly that reason. It's lik there's so much good here. Bu man, those were too many There's too many differen things being said. And so that' the legitimate concern. That' reasonable. I ought to feel th t. I ought to feel responsibil ty around that. And I said it as a mantra. It's not a super g eat soundtrack. But it was lik"Don't write a rubbish book." That was my soundtrack. I'm s re I could have improved upon hat. But still that was there But the things that haven t been helpful are where yo're comparing it against Es entialism, you're comparing it gainst other books that are henomenal. That's just like you live in the gap, not in the game And that's a phrase that Ben amin Hardy introduced to me. A d when he was on the What's E sential podcast is he said, he s id, just as a question, "Are you living in the gain or in the gap" And when I'm in the gap, t at's painful. There's no point o success. There's no place w ere you've written enough b oks, or that they've sold e ough copies that you couldn't s ill be in the gap. And I was j

Jon Acuff:

Just crushing JK Rowling, by the way. JK Rowling st reading the bio for Agatha C ristie, who sold a billion c pies in English, and a billion i the rest of the world. Like th re's can look at her and be like,"I'm terrible. I'm terrible. I've only sold 600 million, but I have a theme park."

Greg McKeown:

There's no point at which you can't be in the gap. So it's not about the level of success. There's an orientation and when you're in the game, when you pause, and you look at how far you've come in When I came to America, 20 years ago, I could not write and it's not false modesty. I could not write a decent essay. Actually, I didn't know how to write a good essay. I'd written lots of essays, but I didn't know thesis structure, conclusion, how to arrange your evidence. I didn't know that. And I didn't have any money. My parents hadn't didn't go to college. As far as I'm sure that they went completed high school. I had nothing. I wrote a I did like a project, self-initiated project where I self-published the level of what I was writing at that time is so different. That's where I came from. When I can keep that perspective in mind, hold things upside. It's so enjoyable.

Jon Acuff:

Yeah, it's all gravy. It's all gravy.

Greg McKeown:

It's all upside. Seriously, every single interview. During this intervie is this upside. Twenty years ag, you didn't have it the one p dcast and so on, right? But l ke nobody was saying, "Hey, coul we just interview? I'd love to just hear what you have to say about it." There was nothing. S everything's upside. And I thin that being in that place make it far more enjoyable. And think it generates success too Because you're just I don t know, you're sort of relax d into it. And the creation com s to you and ideas come and, a d you can take advantage of t e opportunities that are ther, instead of reducing a d diminishing them by thinki g about all the things that a e not there ye

Jon Acuff:

I love that. I think that's fascinating. Some of these questions are because I'm similar in that I have a book that just came out I'm cur I'm always curious about you know, when we joke

Greg McKeown:

A terrific book that just came out.

Jon Acuff:

Thank you. I appreciate that. Matthew McConaughey has been talking about it a lot, apparently, which is helpful.

Greg McKeown:

Soundtracks is just terrific. And you know, sometimes it's weird, because on your own podcast, it can be weird to talk about your own book, like you can and I'm sure you have. Anyone who's listening to this that hasn't bought the book yet, so they feel like this sort of, "Yes, I'm a follower. I'm loyal to Jon." But just go and buy the book. It really matters. It really helps and they should do it. I have. I now have three copies.

Jon Acuff:

I love it. I love it.

Greg McKeown:

And I love it.

Jon Acuff:

We get to text and interact off a podcast, which is really fun. That's the best part to me is when you actually develop a friendship with somebody and go, "Oh, that person is not an idea. They're an individual. And I actually get to know them."

Greg McKeown:

I love that, too.

Jon Acuff:

You know, you and I talked a lot about light and

easy. Matthew 11:

30. You know, my yoke is easy. my burden is light. Why do people have such a hard time allowing things that matter to be light and easy that that question feels like it's the core of of Effortless.

Greg McKeown:

I mean, I can tell you the answers. I always feel like I need to answer it like today, what I know today versus the book. But there are some good answers to that in the book, I think that I learned. One is this Puritanism. That there's a foundational idea that said, hard work is good, it's a virtue, it's a value. And they went further than that to say, ease is a vise. So that positioning underscores this idea that we distrust the easy and we think everything has to be hard. That's one reason. I'll say another reason which is sort of on the other side of the, maybe of the sort of spiritual, religious continuum, is that sophistry also distrusts the easy but for a different reason. Oh, if it's not complex, if it's not somehow not impressive to the intellectual pride within me, then I'll dismiss it. So simplicity gets distrusted. Ease gets distrusted. But again, for now for a different reason. And I mean, there are you quoted Matthew, there are biblical stories to illustrate it, right? There's a, if you remember, I can't remember exactly the names but somebody comes to Elijah, they want him to be healed. And he says, wash yourself seven times in the river Jordan. And he goes what he sent out, seven out to send and he's like "My pride is all bent out of shape. I'm not doing that. What's so special about this river here? and he's almost not going to do it. So his friend says, "Just do it. Like if he'd said that it was a great thing, then you would have done it. And and so just do it, do this thing." And he doesn't, he's healed. And so that idea of whether it's from the work ethic side of like distrusting the easy or whether it's sophistry distrusting the simple and easy, I think that these things are all just get in the way. That there is a path that is both virtuous and simpler. There is a more effortless way to do life.

Jon Acuff:

Do you think that like modern motivational stuff gets in the way of that because I you know, I look at phrases. The things like, "If your dream doesn't scare you, it's not big enough."

Greg McKeown:

No pain, no gain. No pain, no gain.

Jon Acuff:

No pain, no gain. Like what are things that we shout in gyms that are actually not helpful to long term success?

Greg McKeown:

No pain, no game has got to be one of the top ones for this. Like, what a soundtrack. Like, I want to say something like what a stupid soundtrack. No pain, no gain. Let's have pain in our lives. That's the only way to make progress. That doesn't seem very useful. Maybe it's true in the gym. Maybe. Even there, what you really want is consistency. You want to be able to be there six months from now. So if you really do no pain, no gain, right? If you take that literally from the first day you go in there, you're not going to survive past the first week.

Jon Acuff:

Nobody wants six months of pain. Nobody would say like there's no reward that you go, "You know what? I do want six months of pain. That is I have a pair of jeans I really like. I want to be able to fit into them. I will give six months of pain for that pair of jeans." That's a terrible trade.

Greg McKeown:

Yes, it is. And also just just this idea of, I mean no pain no gain in in the gym like if you really do that, when you haven't worked out, you're gonna can't walk the next day. You literally just that isn't what it means anyway. It's not even the people that do it well, yes, you feel a little achy the next day. You push yourself past a certain limit, but it's still within a certain bound. They're just doing it consistently and that captures something, but I think people overdo that. So, I mean, that would be an example of what people say. But I was just, I do some work with a committee that the leader said, and a capable leader in lots of ways, and they just said at the end of this meeting, this kickoff meeting, they said "This could affect millions of people. Could be such benefits, such a blessing to so many people. I mean, it's going to be really hard, but it's going to be really worth it." And I'm like, no one questioned it, nobody challenged her. They didn't think that when they'd said anything that was They were speaking, they were singing out of a hymn book that is so established that no one even heard it. And I definitely heard it. But that's because I been sort of living in this space for a while now. Now, why does it have to be? Does essential stuff have to be relentlessly hard? Could there be a way to make the most sense? How can you make this, the most essential activities, the easiest ones in your life? Anyway, that seems like a good question to ask.

Jon Acuff:

Does shame get in the way of that,? Like, I've seen some people who are high performing. And when it starts to come naturally, they feel like, "Okay, I'm about to get lazy, I have to level up. It has to be harder." Does shame come in there too? Like it's too easy or other people have it harder. I should have it hard too. Like, does that get in the mix?

Greg McKeown:

Yes, I think it's all part of the same paradigm that I think is so limiting. Now, I am in favor of people working. If you aren't doing anything, and you've got a dream and you want to achieve something and you're doing nothing. Yeah, that isn't going to work out for you. Of course you've got to take action. Of course you've got to put in some effort. That's like just level zero to level one. That usefulness gets used up fast. People past a certain point, you can't put in more hours. Like how many hours can you put in? There's a limit. And so to put in more hours doesn't suddenly get you double the results and 10 times the results? No, you have to develop a new strategy. And yet, when people get into this mindset, they don't unlearn the lesson they need to and start discovering a different, a better strategy, a smarter approach, an alternative. They just go, "A low effort got me some results. Well, a lot of effort is going to get me better results. And then if I kill myself, I'm going to have incredible results." And then people get burned out. They don't even though they're burned out, cause they're burned out. Like that affects their discernment. And then they think"Okay, well, the answer is to power through." I think actually a lot of people have done that over the last year. They've got the results they've got through this grinding effort for killing themselves. And they just don't even know there's an alternative. That there's another path.

Jon Acuff:

I love the pace chapter. Chapter 10, about pace where you talk about this exact thing about I'm going to power through and some people take that approach. If somebody said, okay, this my podcast is All It Takes is a Goal. I've got a bunch of goals. I've used power through for a lot of my life, but I'm realizing it's got diminishing returns. You talked about that in the book. Diminishing returns, what would you say to that person to say, hey, what if you set an upper limit? What if you, like the story you tell about you know, trying to reach the South Pole, the explorer who set the 15 mile pace, every day reached it. The guy who would go 45 miles and then no miles, all five of them died. Like this story is very clear which path ends up better?

Greg McKeown:

Yes.

Jon Acuff:

What would you say to somebody to say, you know, help me set a pace. What does pace look like?

Greg McKeown:

Well, that I mean, just speaking into that story for just a second. You summarized it fantastic. There's a moment at which the team that makes it, the Amundson teams, the Norwegian team, are 45 miles from the South Pole. No one's ever in human history, achieved this. They'd never got there. And he is, he is within 45 miles. He has perfect weather conditions. And if he just pushes through now, in one day, he can get it. He doesn't know where the competitive team is. There's Captain Scott, flew from Britain. He doesn't know where he is. So he could be, he could be two days behind him. And if he if he rushes, one day, he'll get there, you'll get the victory and still, he takes three days to make that trip. He still does it. 15 miles on average, those last few days. The average is 15.5 miles per day. The entire trip succeeds, and he also gets home alive and as you say the other team dies. The biographer, speaking of what has got to be, at least, in my mind one of the greatest, most challenging physical tests imaginable, that's why no one has done it In 1000 years, 2000 years of recorded history, no one has ever done it. They describe the experience. He says, they achieved this goal. And this is the quote, "without particular effort."

Jon Acuff:

Just crazy.

Greg McKeown:

It's crazy. That's the maddest thing to say, of that. And of course, you've got to take it within context. Of course, there was effort. Of course, there were challenges. But to summarize the approach as without particular effort, is like, it's just amazing. And that's what happens if you get into pace. If you let go of this heroics paradigm, where the only way to achieve stuff is through crazy heroics. If you can get past that, you actually open up precisely the strategy to help you break through to the next level of contribution, but without burning out. And so yes, this is a counterintuitive approach. When you set a goal, you set a minimum bound, that's a good idea, right? "I won't do less than this." I did a good journal keeping that's, that's not the most interesting one. But I said, Okay, I'm gonna write no less than one sentence a day. That makes sense, because you want consistency. But a lot of people when they set a goal like that and they write in their journal, the first day, they write three pages. They write a veritable essay, but they don't have time for that. So they, they don't do it on day three. They are going "I gotta make up for day two." Then that's it, it's over before they begun. It's so intermittent. So intermittent progress is a poor way to break through to the next level of results. It doesn't work. It works really poorly, in terms of superior performance. So if you set an upper bound for me with the journaling, it was saying, okay, no more than five sentences a day until this thing becomes effortless, until it's built into my routine, until I'm enjoying it, until it just works. And so I haven't missed a day, to my recollection, I have not missed a day of writing in my journal in 10 years now. And it's because you have an upper bound.

Jon Acuff:

Have you extended the upper bound and the 10 years?

Greg McKeown:

Yeah, I don't even have an upper bound anymore.

Jon Acuff:

Because it's natural. It's effortless.

Greg McKeown:

It's just part of the thing. I carry the journal with me everywhere I go. I enjoy doing it. It's a ritual for me. But even now, I'll still, if I find I'm getting behind, it has been two or three days, I might want to make up for that. I'll say, okay, no less than one sentence and another five sentences. I'll still go back to that if I get off track.

Jon Acuff:

So good. So good. You still have it as a framework that serves you long term.

Greg McKeown:

Totally. And and this is the thing, it's consistency. That is the power, right? Is if you can do something consistently, then you start to get all those compounding benefits that we all know about. But it's true for any goal whatsoever. If you say, okay, I'm gonna read this book. I mean, I know someone who set a goal to read Anna Karenina, like 20 years ago. And he hasn't finished, it is still a goal. I mean, you could you say I can't, forget it. I'm never going to do it. It's still a goal. If he had an upper bound, and a lower bound, he would have done it right. Even a huge book like Anna Karenina, you'd do it no problem. No less than one page, no more than 10 pages. You just stick to it. Absolutely any goal you want, almost any goal you want, can be built into an upper bound situation. And it's counterintuitive I took up swimming again with my family as a new ritual. I wanted to go swimming, swimming 100 lengths. The last time I swam was 100 lengths before they close the pools down with the pandemic. Finally, they opened back up. Beautiful weather, we're going to go do this. I just felt like trying to push it. I just felt like let's go. Maybe not 100. I felt like that might make me just ill. But I was like, I want to go. And then I remembered this like upper bound. I said, alright, 40 lengths, which for me was not a struggle. And did 40 lengths. The next day, I felt like doing more. No, 40 lengths. Next day, same, same, same, same. But until I'd done a week, and then I said okay, 50 lengths. And then it stayed at 50. like you don't have to push. In fact, don't push. If you want to achieve breakthrough performance, don't push so hard. Don't force anything. Don't push anything beyond a certain thing. So there's a little left in the tank for tomorrow so that you can get the consistency.

Jon Acuff:

I love that principle. All right, that is the end of part one. Is it. Is it me or do you think sounds smarter when they're said with a British accent? Greg could read a restaurant menu and I'd be like, that is brilliant. I love capers and rubella. Part Two of my interview with Greg McKeown will launch on Friday, May 21. Make sure you don't miss it. Thank you so much for listening today. If you love this episode, please leave a review. The reviews you've been leaving have been awesome. I'll see you on Friday. And remember, all it takes is a goal. This episode of the podcast was brought to you by Medi-Share. Text JON, J-O-N to 474747 for more information. Huge thank you to Medi-Share for sponsoring it. J-O-N to 474747.

Producer:

Thanks for listening. To learn more about the All It Takes Is A Goal podcast and to get access to today's show notes, transcript, and exclusive content from Jon Acuff, visit Acuff.me/podcast. Thanks again for joining us. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of the All It Takes Is A Goal podcast.