Can selfless acts help you achieve your goals? It may sound counterintuitive that investing time into others can help you achieve your goals, but Richard Lui has the data that proves selflessness pays major dividends for the giver and the receiver.
Veteran journalist Richard Lui has more than 30 years in television, film, technology, and business. He's the first Asian American man to anchor a daily national cable news program, and a team Emmy and Peabody winner. He joins me for a conversation to teach you how to find the hidden power of selflessness and how it will help you to reach your goals.
You can catch up on everything Richard Lui is up to and grab his book on his website!
Follow Jon on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook.
Order Soundtracks, Jon's newest book available wherever you find quality books!
Can selfless acts help you achieve your goals? It may sound counterintuitive that investing time into others can help you achieve your goals, but Richard Lui has the data that proves selflessness pays major dividends for the giver and the receiver.
Veteran journalist Richard Lui has more than 30 years in television, film, technology, and business. He's the first Asian American man to anchor a daily national cable news program, and a team Emmy and Peabody winner. He joins me for a conversation to teach you how to find the hidden power of selflessness and how it will help you to reach your goals.
You can catch up on everything Richard Lui is up to and grab his book on his website!
Follow Jon on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook.
Order Soundtracks, Jon's newest book available wherever you find quality books!
Hey everyone, and welcome to the All It Takes Is A Goal podcast, the best place in the entire world, including all of Canada, to learn how to build new thoughts, new actions, and new results. I'm your host, Jon Acuff and today I've got a really fun conversation with Richard Lui. Richard is a journalist with 30 years of experience, an entrepreneur, and an author. I wanted to talk to him because his recent book, Enough About Me, teaches you how to make selflessness a goal. That's not a goal you hear a lot about. It's much easier, especially in the age of social media, to focus on yourself. So I was curious. In the opening story we talked about in this episode made me so nervous, what happened? Well, you'll just that's a little bit of a teaser, you'll just have to see. We'll jump into his bio in just a second. But first, today's episode is sponsored by me. That's right. Today's sponsor is me. I've been really surprised at how many people who listen to this podcast have reached out to me about having me speak at their events. I love that. And here's why. Over the last 13 years, I've had the honor to help hundreds of companies like Nissan, Walmart, Microsoft, and Comedy Central at events around the world. And during that time, I've developed three big goals for your event. Number one, I want to slingshot your audience into the best year they've ever had. Whether I'm opening, closing, or somewhere in the middle of the event, I want to launch everyone out of that room with actionable, memorable things that they can apply to their work and lives immediately. Number two, my second goal, I want the sound team engaged and laughing. The sound team has heard it all, they have. And if I can make them laugh and learn along the way, the audience is going to absolutely love the keynote. And number three, my third goal, I want you to get text messages during the keynote. My favorite sentence to hear from you after I speak is, "Jon, my phone was blowing up during your keynote." I'm there to make you look like a rock star not me. If your boss texts you during my speech and compliments you on how well the event is going. Then I know I've done my job, whether it's virtual or live, 10,000 people in an arena, or 15 sales team members on WebEx or zoom or Microsoft Teams. I'd love to help you with your next event. Fill out the quick form at Acuff.me/Speaking to check my availability. That's Acuff, A-C-U-F-F, dot M-E slash speaking. Alright, please enjoy my conversation with Richard Lui. Alright, veteran journalist Richard Lui has more than 30 years in television, film technology, and business. Currently at MSNBC and previously with CNN worldwide, you've probably heard of them before, he is the first Asian-American man to anchor a daily national cable news program, which is amazing, and a Team Emmy and Peabody winner. In addition to journalism, Richard's 15-year business career involves a FinTech patent and launching six tech brands over three business cycles. He has lived, worked, and volunteered on every continent. We're gonna have to 100% ask about that because I got a lot of Antarctica questions. Richard is a celebrity champion for the Alzheimer's Association, caregiving champion for AARP, and caregiving ambassador for BrightFocus Foundation. That's an amazing bio. Richard, thanks for joining me today,
Richard Lui:Jon, thanks for having me.
Jon Acuff:Yeah, I think it's gonna be a ton of fun. I want to jump right in. I've got your book right here. Love the book, you've got a copy behind you. I've got one in my hand. And I just want to tell you right out of the gate, the opening story about your audition in CNN, it made me so nervous for you like I got sweaty reading it. Yeah. Can you tell people a little about that experience? Because I think not everybody's had that experience, but everybody's had an experience where it doesn't go the way they think it's going to go.
Richard Lui:Yeah, I mean, basically, so it was my first gig, Jon, and I flew in from Singapore, because I was working there. And I had this audition. And so I was like, "oh, gee, I get to sit at the desk," right? At CNN for my audition, and what the way these auditions work, is that it's exactly like a broadcast we'd watch on TV, except it's just not being broadcast. So everything is like the teleprompter or the producers, you know, the video's rolling and everything. So they had me sit down. And first of all, you're nervous because the desk is THE desk. And at that time, you know, CNN was the only international gig in the world. It was the gig in the US, obviously. And the producer says, you know, "Read the teleprompter." I think I got that, you know, I can read so I read the teleprompter, and then the executive producer gets in my ear and says, "We, we have some breaking news." And this is during an advertisement or a piece of sound that they're playing. "And a plane is down. And I want you to summarize it when we come on back." And then I'm like, "What are they doing?" And then she does it again. And each time she does that, it's twice, I was like, "This is an audition. I'm supposed to be reading a teleprompter and asking questions not doing this breaking whatever it is."
Jon Acuff:Did you get the sense she was trying to throw you in that moment? Like, this is the test.
Richard Lui:I did not know how important it would be. I had heard they might do it, but not the way she had done it two or three times, right. And so it did throw me and I did think she was gonna throw me. It did throw me I was, you know, I was sweating. And I didn't have any tissue or any, I didn't have a powder puff. So I took the script, and I was pressing it into my face to take off the sweat.
Jon Acuff:Just wiping yourself with pieces of paper.
Richard Lui:With pieces of paper. And then on the other side, you'd see the makeup on the paper, basically. And then I was, you know what we do when we get nervous. I was like, you know, going like this, and you know, shaking my hands. You can't see it, but I'm shaking a fist right now. And what I learned, you know, through a voice class was, you know, the way you clear voice is you do these sort of like "bumblebee, umblebee, bumblebee, umblebee," things like that, ight? So I was doing all of his because I knew I wasn't on amera. The camera was not on, ight? Because it was during the iece of sound that they were laying. Like she told him to ome back on. And then I deliver he breaking news. I think I hit t. And then later on, I talked o my my agent, and I didn't get he job. And the agent, she ays, "Well, how'd it go?" I tol her this entire story, Jon, and she said, "Well, I know why ou didn't get it. It's what y u were doing when you're off amera. It wasn't what you we e reading into the camera. The were watching you. Because it' not like the cameras off being broadcast, but they're wat hing you to see how you handle his." And I start with that xample, Jon, because it is what e do off camera that counts. And my dad taught me that as a p stor, because it wasn't what h was doing shen he was stand ng in front and talking. It's what he would always say would e, it'd be the coffee hour. It w uld be outside when he's in the treets. That was what counted, when you were off camera.
Jon Acuff:The off camera moments. And I think what's interesting to me about that story, too, because I love your background. You kind of casually said "I was just coming in from Singapore." And when you read the book. It's an intense story because you haven't slept well, you've just done an international flight, you're juggling a million things. And same with breaking news. I mean, like that phrase, "Summarize a plane crash" the average person can go, "No problem. I got that. I'll summarize a plane crash." So I'm curious. You know, we talk a lot about goals on this podcast. How do you transition from highly intense moments back to a regular moment? Like it'd be really easy to kind of get addicted to the adrenaline, the energy, like and then crash and burn highs and lows. But how do you, you've just broke a breaking news story, there's tons of natural adrenaline that comes from that and you have to transition back between these moments of high performance, kind of medium performance, what's that process look like for you?
Richard Lui:I think the best thing is repetition. So repeat environments made me feel more comfortable with the variation of those extreme moments of high to low. So that would be one. Two would be do and this is we review tapes. And so for any other industry, what is the equivalent of that tape? And maybe you do tape it? Maybe you do do the exercise that puts you in that "what if". Let's say it's a negotiation. Let's say it's a contract negotiation. Let's say you know, it's a sell, right? It's that presentation. Some folks like to say, "Oh, you know, I I'm good off the cuff. I'm just good. I don't need it." You know, they didn't start that way. And the majority of them that can do that did not start that way. They started by laying out every single point and idea. I still write out questions, Jon, before an interview, but I may not use any of them. But I still prepare. And just like on Meet the Press, when you know Tim Russert, for those who know Tim Russert or that great program where he would interview our politicians of the day. He laid out just like the 49ers did as well, Bill Walsh, the first 25 plays and he laminated it before every game, and he knew exactly where it was going to go and he did not go off of that script. Now, do the script. Do the practice. Self analyze because watching yourself on tape, Jon, I know you and I are both in this sort of space. It's not fun.
Jon Acuff:It's brutal. I hate it. I don't like listening to my own podcast, my voice is ter I want to apologize most of the time. Like I don't like my voice.
Richard Lui:You're voice great, man, I like it. It's so rich and unique and round.
Jon Acuff:That's nice of you just say. It's the microphone, a lot of it. I really invested in it. I had a kind of a super nerd tell me buy this microphone, and that helped.
Richard Lui:Sound effects, alright. Anyway, you get my point, is go there. Go to those points of discomfort. And so for me, handling breaking news was a lot of that.
Jon Acuff:Well, to your point about discomfort. It's interesting you mentioned that word. So your book is titled Enough About Me, The Unexpected Power of Selflessness. And I would say there is some discomfort there in the sense that a lot of times the books we want to talk about are "This is how I can be the most amazing me" and like "How to build my own world." And like one thing on Instagram, it's always popular is like, "You got to eliminate toxic people" as if it's like you against this sea of toxic people and kind of this is me. One, why did you write a book that's counter to that? And two, how would you define selflessness?
Richard Lui:You know, I was living through this time that you know, as a reporter, watching all of these people being selfish, killing people at random. We're living through it right now in the Asian-American community, as we look across the United States. Why is it that this group is being targeted and they can be beaten and kicked? And we saw it with George Floyd, we've seen in the African-American community. These stories that I've had to tell, I've seen it was just random mass shooters. I've stayed on Newtown, Connecticut. Why are we doing this to our elementary school students of our country? All these sorts of stories come to you want to summarize it. Like a Sunday show, you can't help but do that. And the summary and like with the with the pandemic, and why are people not wearing masks around people like my parents who are very susceptible to this stuff, you know? I don't know any better. I'm not a scientist, I gotta listen to the scientists and that's what they're telling me. All these things together. And this is not about any sort of political bent, but more of just, we're living in a selfish pandemic. We're living in a time where it is so cheap to be hateful and to be violent. And we are it is brought on by, as I write in the book, this sort of "me-ist" space that we've really perfected. We've got all the tools, Jon, you know that, to be very me-ist. And so as a journalist, that book is only approaching it as that. As a journalist exploring an idea and what could be the response to the selfish pandemic. And that is a small book, about being selfless. I tried, I love business books. I mean, you as a successful author, as a best seller, and one of these days, I'd love to be like you, is that, you kno, that sort of culture of making the ideas constructive and productive. And the approach to the book was that it would be like a business book to offer you real things you can do every day. And so that's why it's like a self help book and anti-self self help book and its approach.
Jon Acuff:And I love I mean, so you use the phrase, "a selfishness pandemic". Now, you're not talking about the pandemic everybody thinks about, you're talking about a much bigger one that's been going on far longer, far persuasive, a pandemic of selfishness. I love that idea. What do you think has been the impact of social media on selfishness? Like, how has that impacted the way we approach that idea?
Richard Lui:It certainly has helped us to manifest what we believe to be our, one of our, inherent rights, which is to be famous.
Jon Acuff:Oh, that we have an inherent right to be famous.
Richard Lui:We believe that, right? That's that we have
Jon Acuff:Is that Andy Warhol, like "everybody gets 15 minutes of fame"?
Richard Lui:Yeah, exactly. We believe a little bit more than that right now. I think 15 is way too little, right?
Jon Acuff:That's a snack. Come on, Andy, give me like a year.
Richard Lui:Exactly. You got to give me a year or five or an existence. And so that very idea that we have that inherent right to be famous, social media certainly has been a great tool for that. On the flip side, it's been a great tool for the solutions to many of our ills, to many of the steps forward that we've seen around the world. So it really cuts both ways, as you know so well. But yes, it is one of the great tools that our great country has been able to create and perfect in a me-ist time.
Jon Acuff:Do you think people are afraid of being selfless? Like what's the worry? Because that when I am selfless, I feel different when I have given, when I've done something for somebody else, with no expectation of return, when I've gone out of my way, I feel different. I can sense an inherent difference. But why are people afraid to try that to be selfless? What do they think the cost is going to be or the risk?
Richard Lui:Isn't that what you do on Sundays, Jon?
Jon Acuff:Be selfless on Sundays?
Richard Lui:Isn't it above your pay grade? Isn't it a little pollyannish? It is a little weird to be talking about selflessness, right? Or it's not like, "Oh, hey, how you doing? Let's talk about how Wall Street's doing. Let's look at Main Street. Let's talk about selflessness." It's a little strange. I get that. And so I think that's why that's one reason culturally, it's just like, we don't share. So share a story on social media about somebody being selfless. Start to change the cultural dynamic, the way we understand how to do it and the way to talk about it. I think that's one space that bring your two ideas together in one answer. And then in addition to that, when we think of why, we also think as like a Desmond Tutu, and Mother Teresa. Like it's a gargantuan thing. And what we do in the book, instead we deconstruct it, we say, no, it is a lot of little things. It's a lot of bite-sized things. It's daily things. It is who you have lunch with. It's how you clean the counter at work. It is bringing in doughnuts to your fellow coworkers. It is saying thank you. You know, all these little things do work. And it's more than that. We actually look at, you know, by being a selfless person, you do make more, of like 50 to 60% more over 14, we looked into a study that tracked careers over 14 years. Yeah, you do make more money if you're selfless. It really is true. Selfless leaders. Their organizations are 50% more efficient. 50%.
Jon Acuff:50%? That staggering.
Richard Lui:That's in career payoff and that study, which we look into, you can drill down and take a look at it. Even if they're off by a factor of 10, you're still increasing productivity by 5%. Take it, right? These are all unintended benefits. You look better too, when you're selfless. So we can go on and on.
Jon Acuff:The ROI on selfless is fantastic. The way I say it is, jerks do win sometimes, but it's always temporary. Because when you're a leader who's a jerk, your people can't wait to leave you and they're just waiting for just the slightest opportunity. And you know, when you make a mistake, that's when it becomes a downfall. You haven't built anything into the love bank, and it's gonna collapse almost immediately. So I'm curious. You mentioned cleaning the break room. You said that one. I love that part in the book. Did Seth Meyers really microwave tuna in the 30 Rock break room? Is that a, Is that a thing that Is that because you hate Seth Meyers?
Richard Lui:I think he's great. Seth is great. But he is definitely that's the talk in the building over at 30 Rock where I work.
Jon Acuff:Fish in the breakroom. Hot fish is what you're telling me?
Richard Lui:I mean, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it.
Jon Acuff:Yeah, that to me that is on par with cutting your toenails at the office. Like you're not eat hot fish at home all day. But when it's a microwave at work, I just feel like that was, I don't want to say shocking, because I don't think that's shocking, but if I was going to have a shocking reveal if this was TMZ, like that would be the angle they would cover on this book. But I love little details like that. You have a lot more humor in here than I think you probably give yourself credit for.
Richard Lui:I put together a team of 10 people for the book because I knew I couldn't do it alone. And I know as a journalist, that the typical thing is you write everything on your own, do everything on your own. No, I brought in a scientist. I brought in an assistant researcher. I brought in, I can keep on telling all the consultants. I brought in, I call her my "book sherpa". Nancy was fantastic as my book sherpa, Nancy French. And two comedians that work in my space. You know, in late night. I said, you know, how can I make this me? Because, like, I'm not that serious of a person all the time. And so I brought in poets at the end of the book, there are four poems. I did four collabs with two poets. There's a cartoonist that I worked with, and we spent, had a lot of fun doing the cartoons by the way, Jon, because for a moment I was living through the cartoonist thinking I could come up with this stuff.
Jon Acuff:Oh, yeah. Yeah, it looks like it's like magic. You're like, "I could probably figure that out." And then you try it and you're like, "This is the hardest thing." I think we all think we can dunk when we watch the NBA. And then you realize I can't do a lay up really. So it's interesting to hear that part of your process. From a writing perspective, you know, how long did the book take? What were the things that you know, you said, "Wow, I went in thinking this about writing a book and I learned it was this"? Because there's a lot of people, it's one of America's most common goals is, according to New York Times 81% of people want to write a book. You know, that's what adults say. So how did this change during the process? I hadn't heard somebody bring such a full team. I think that's awesome. What did you learn during the process?
Richard Lui:It takes a team, number one. Number two, definitely try to have fun with it along the way, and don't do it alone. Don't do it alone, because I learned so much from everybody.
Jon Acuff:Yeah, so having a team sounds like it was a major part of it.
Richard Lui:I created a new chapters too, Jon, because of that.
Jon Acuff:Whole new chapters?
Richard Lui:Oh, yeah, whole new chapters. You know, Nancy and I would talk and I'd say, "I got this brand new idea. I want to do this on", so like gratitude came up because of working with the scientist. And there's a part of a chapter about unmitigated selflessness. Giving too much, right. And then the negative effects of giving too much. That came up, was working with a different researcher. So all of these things started to, I'd add in chapters, as I talked with different team members, as we were working on different things.
Jon Acuff:How long did it take you? So I'm talking about like, you have the idea, you have gotten that sweet, sweet email from the publisher from Zondervan that says, "Your manuscript's accepted. Like, you're great."
Richard Lui:I was talking to my agents about it. Because this is right in middle COVID. This is March 2020. I mean, Jon, you know this better than I, I'm a first timer, like it is definitely laid out over a certain period of time. And I'm thinking, "Is this the right time that we should be pitching? Because..." Then they came back and they said, "No, people are buying books more than ever. So let's go!" And the publishers loved it. It took me six months, once we signed to finish it, because I wanted to get it out as soon as possible, knowing that we were living through this tough time. I definitely knew the market for, if you will, "we need to do something about selfishness" was there, and we need to, therefore, get this out sooner.
Jon Acuff:I love it. Are you already working on another one?
Richard Lui:I am.
Jon Acuff:Okay, how soon after you finished that one? Did you start working on the other one?
Richard Lui:About a month and a half or two.
Jon Acuff:Oh, that's good. I love that.
Richard Lui:Is that what you do too?
Jon Acuff:Yeah, I mean, cuz I, I'd love to say I start the next day. But my head's just not in that space. And I start to gather ideas. I'm curious, what's your idea collection system like? So you're walking somewhere, a great idea comes to you or you hear something somebody says, and you think,"Oh, wait, there's more to that." How do you collect your ideas? How do you sort them? How do you shape them? Like, what does that process look like for you?
Richard Lui:So that started, Jon, when I want to become a news anchor and switched careers from business to journalism. And I started this thing out of business school that I call a"career log" so I wouldn't have to drive any family members or loved ones crazy every time I came up with an idea. You know,"Oh, I got an idea. You got to hear about it!" And I realized I gotta stop going, "Oh!" so I created a Google doc or Word doc at the time that turned into Google Doc, where every time I have an idea, I put it in there. And then I review that idea sheet at least once a year to rethink what I want to do in life. So when it came to the book, the same idea, I would just put it in there and then every time I, whatever the team is at that time, reviewed the ideas. I would not use up those very valuable interactions with people like yourself. So Jon, let's say you agreed to be a consultant on my next book. I would definitely be putting all those things in that little document. And then the times that we would meet maybe three times a year, right? I would say, "Okay, Jon, this is what I'm thinking right now." I would not waste the time, coming to you with un- sort of thought about ideas first.
Jon Acuff:You'd let them marinate first?
Richard Lui:Yeah, I got to. I mean, and that's the thing about is, you know, when you're talking to individuals who are either leading businesses or are in business and are thinking about career moves, the first question I was asked, "Did you write this down before you talked to me about it? Have you spent any time just you and that idea, before you're talking with me?" Not because I think I'm all that special. I'm just thinking, I know it works better that way.
Jon Acuff:Yeah. Yeah.
Richard Lui:My follow up question generally is when folks ask about a new business idea or a new career is "Okay, what's the name of that business? What would you call it? Where would it be? How much would it cost? Who would be your partners? What's the scarce resource?" Those are the things I would want to be able to answer if I were to come to you. It doesn't have to be like a full business plan. But at least like an email.
Jon Acuff:That's good. That is so good. Because I think we often, you know, and you talk in chapter six about mentors, I think we often mess up mentor relationships by giving them, you know, a postage stamp of an idea we had in the shower. And then they go, "Well, let me give you what I think about that", and they react to your postage stamp, but there's nothing to react to. They're now thinking about it more than you have. Wow, I hadn't thought about that. What questions, you know, should you be prepared to come talk about when you get somebody advice, that's great.
Richard Lui:You know what I do, Jon, is I say, "Write the email you're going to send your mentor after,before you meet with them" on top of that. So you have your idea that you have in a career log, but then write the email that you're going to send after you meet with them, so that you already know what your goals are, basically.
Jon Acuff:"Thank you for talking to me about this. I appreciate this."
Richard Lui:Right. "Look forward to you connecting me to..."
Jon Acuff:Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because that's your job too. That's the other thing. And mentors were an important part of your life. And I love that idea of it's your job to make that mentors job easy. So that's what, I mean, that's what you're talking about. Like, it's your job to follow up, it's not their job to follow up. I had a mentor tell me, "When somebody wants to meet with me, I say, 'Great, let's meet at 5:30am in this part of Atlanta', and if they go, 'Ah, that's kind of the traffic's gonna be. And I don't know, that's pretty early.' I know, they won't even take any of my advice. If they don't want to put the skin in of getting up early, coming over to where I work, then the rest of it." So being an appreciative mentee or prepared mentee, it's so good.
Richard Lui:Prepared. Yes, absolutely. You know, and you've had those calls too, or those sit downs, and you're going"Well, at least do as much thinking please, as we're doing together now."
Jon Acuff:Yeah, I think that's such a good idea. So I want to jump back into being selfless. If somebody says to you,"Richard, I'd love to, I've read the book. I'm enjoying it. But I'm afraid if I'm selfless people take advantage of me." I think that's a common pushback. What's your response to that?
Richard Lui:Well, being taken advantage of. Okay, let's say, what might that context be? The whole idea is yes, that might happen. And that the whole approach to the book is, it's never going to be perfect, right? You can pick apart anything with one example. But that's anecdotal. By the percentages though, which I posit in the book, is 51% or greater of the time, if it's working, then you're doing the right thing. So let's just say it's, I was going back to the bringing the doughnuts to work, and let's say people just expect it and they don't thank you. And it's like, "Okay, why bother to do that," right? That probably might be 5% of the time, or 10% of the time. So that does not make the rule. And that was very important to me growing up, because I thought everything had to be perfect. You know, many of us do that when we're in high school. We have these big ideas and these sort of these are the four walls of x, whatever that x is. And once one of the walls comes down, the whole building falls, right? That ain't true. A building can stand with three walls. And the point that we make about selflessness is it's not going to be perfect. Instead, what it is, is going to be an imperfect perfection. And that we should embrace that reality. It's true in business as well. Which is great because your audience understands that, being in that space. When you make business decisions, there is no perfect business decision. It is mitigating factors, doing the best, being above that 51%. Okay, we might go, "Let's do that. That's the right decision to make." Because it's not going to be perfect. We can't control all the market.
Jon Acuff:Yeah, I love that. The idea that perfectionism is a house of cards, and that you remove one wall, the whole thing falls down. But that's just not true. The thing that's interesting to me about that is you're right, when I talk about positive thinking somebody will say, "But what about this bad thing that happened?" It's the one thing that apparently now disproves all the research about the benefits of positive thinking or selflessness. What was the biggest surprise for you in the research process? So you mentioned the scientist a couple of times. You know, for me, one of the you know, I wrote a book recently, and there was a story in there about how, if you're exposed to words about being old, you'll physically walk slower just from reading words about being old. And that was stunning to me like that you're, you know, how important what you think what you digest is to how you actually act. What was part of the research that you said,"Wait, what?" I think every book there's a "Why aren't more people talking about this?" Like there's the 50%. Like, that's an amazing number about leaders and long term benefits. But what was a piece of the research to kind of knocked you over?
Richard Lui:Every single time we looked into the big questions of what a self help book might be, we found that there was overwhelming research that showed "Yeah, you do look better, you do live longer." And all the other examples that I brought up, and I was just shocked. So I told the scientists, "I don't believe this. You cannot look better by being selfless. I just don't get it." So she said, "Okay. Well, then let's do one on you." She went out and conducted the study. And she had three different types of Richards. Selfish Richard, Selfless Richard, and then one in the middle. And they had the same picture. And the only thing that was different is one of the bullets under Selfless Richard, because there were three bullets like "Richard, he works in this profession. He has this hobby." And then one of them said,"Richard takes care of his dad when he has time." That was the only difference in one of them. Everything else was equal. And Selfish Richard, who didn't like to do anything for anybody else, came into at a 6.4. I did not want to know these numbers, let's put it that way. And then the Selfless Richard, and she pulled in her study over 1000 different respondents, Selfless Richard came in at 7.1. And I couldn't I was like, "Okay!"
Jon Acuff:Same exact photo?
Richard Lui:Same exact photo. And you would get either one of those photos you would not see all three, you get one of them. And sure enough, she proved it to me.
Jon Acuff:That you look better when you're selfless. So funny.
Richard Lui:You know, my point was like, I just can't believe it. I just, no, it just can't be that.
Jon Acuff:But I love that she said, "Okay, well, let's prove it. Here's a scientific way to study that>" Because I think sometimes when there's books about selflessness, it's kind of"You should just do it. Be a nicer person." Like they get kind of fuzzy, they get kind of soft, they don't jump into as much science as I feel like you jumped into. One of the things that I really enjoy in the book was your three plants theory about life. Because I tell entrepreneurs all the time that it's good to have a few faucets going at the same time. You know, I'm a public speaker, last March, every event I had got either postponed or put on pause. So as a business owner, thankfully, I had multiple faucets going, but walk people through your three plants theory.
Richard Lui:Well, I was realizing that in my life early on, like when I first graduated from high school, I couldn't afford to go to college. So I worked for Mrs. Fields Cookies. And so I like to say my first college was cookie college. And in fact, it was, by the way, Jon, because Mrs. Fields, as you might know, had a cookie college and Park City, Utah, and I went there. And all I did for about five years was work. Go home, then go to family things, then go church, then do nothing,
Jon Acuff:Just like half a decade of cookies?
Richard Lui:This is right, half a decade and six cookies a day on top of that I would eat. And I would sleep on the supply rafters. I was there late, you know. I didn't know anything else but that. And when I quit, I realized, "Wow, air smells pretty good outside. Wow, my friends are really caring and they're great people."
Jon Acuff:There's mountains out here.
Richard Lui:There's mountains."My parents are really funny people I'd love What am I doing?" And the idea of three plants, watering three plants, is yeah, we can have that hot number one thing that we're so invested in, but don't forget the other things, other passions we've got in life. And other passions can be, it is the food bank that, you know, that gave us food, our family food when we were growing up. I want to give back and I need to continue to be there. There is the opportunity that could be a sport. Like I love to play tennis. Keep on doing, just don't do it as often. So the idea is like it with the water you got, yeah, you can put into 70% of the main thing which may be your career, but put the 15% of water in family. Put the 15% water in the food bank. Put the 15% of water, you know in the sport. Because when that main plant dies, and it always does like it did for me. When I got fired from Mrs. Fields, all of a sudden I'm sitting there going"Alright, what do I do now?"
Jon Acuff:You just lost 100% of your water.
Richard Lui:That's right, I lost all my plants, because I only had one and I got nothing else cooking. And so like, this book is a side gig for me. And my main gig is, you know, being a caregiver and working. If I lose any one of these things like you were just noting, I'd love to, I mean, if people will buy books, I'd love to keep on doing this or moviemaking, would love to do that. So that's the idea. And to be very simplistic about it, being very high school about it, or college, we've all had those friends when they enter a relationship they disappear. "Where did Jim go? Is Jim around? Oh, Jim's back now. Oh, what happened? Oh, Jim broke up. Okay. Good to see ya, Jim."
Jon Acuff:When Jim tries to slide in like he hasn't been gone for nine months. You're like, "Whoa, easy, Jim. There's a lot of life that's happened when you were with Susan. Let's pump the brakes."
Richard Lui:Yeah. "Friendship ain't cheap buddy." And I had a friend say that to me, Jon, too.
Jon Acuff:When you tried to reenter?
Richard Lui:He said, "Rich. Where you been? You got a friend here for life. If you decide to invest", he almost said it directly this way. "You got a friend for life, if you invest. If you at least, put into it a little bit." And I was like, I am so glad he said that to me because it realigned the stuff we got around, so we have to we have to cultivate it.
Jon Acuff:100% one of the things you just mentioned was being a caregiver, which is a big part of your story, a big part of your transition. How did you make that decision? Walk people through that process.
Richard Lui:So journalism is what we like to say, it's an eight day a week job. Because I was called out and I was sent, you know, sent to Paris for the Bataclan Massacre. I was in Ferguson during Michael Brown. I was in Napa Valley during an earthquake with vats of wine being spilled, you know. I could be sent anywhere and so when I knew that my dad would need help, because he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's eight years ago, it was like, "Well do not care for your dad? Okay, you do. So then what are you gonna do? You live in New York and you're traveling around. There's no way you can help what he's going to need because Alzheimers is a devastating disease." So I decided after thinking about it, that maybe there's something we can do with my work. So I talked to my boss and I walk into the office, and I'm thinking she's going, "Richard, we love you. Good guy. Square peg, round hole. Thank you. Next time, when things change, come on back. Right, we'll talk." Instead, what Yvette Miley told me as an executive editor, as you know, running all day side on a major network, she says, "I'm a long distance caregiver like you, Richard. My mom is in Florida. And let's figure something out together." So we figured something out together. She said, "Come up with some ideas." So I, like I was saying to you earlier, I wrote it out. I met with her next. And I said,"These are my ideas." She had hers. And then I had my email ready because it was written. I sent it to her. A year later, I asked her if we could pull one of those levers. She said yes. And so for six years, I've been working Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and then traveling back. I mean, I've probably put in 2 to 300,000 miles a year. You never know what can happen. Organizations are becoming far more selfless, writ large. They've lived through it in the last year. They put in devices. They put in the culture, most importantly, has become more selfless. Number two, the infrastructure as a result of that has had to become more selfless. My business is a good example. 30 rock is now, wow, I mean, 5% of us are there, Jon, we're still able to put on a show. We're still able to employ everybody. For the most part, we have systems that care for you if you happen to become sick that we never had before people are calling you and the culture has changed. I mean, you as a as an author, I'd be very interested to see what is, what we'll call, the Fourth Industrial Revolution? What is it? Because we are now in one of those cataclysmic times. Just like with the end of the Cold War, when all of a sudden all of the technology was all of a sudden focused on what? Stuff to make me-ism really good. Right? All of a sudden, that military infrastructure, that was our fourth, that was our third or 3.5, whatever you want to call it.
Jon Acuff:However you break it down.
Richard Lui:Yeah, you want to control an AI? Go ahead. You can do all of that. Anything you want. But that's really all three. I think we're going through four, right now. We're in the beginning of four, because it is the whole world going through something that is value-wise and culture-wise, authority changed us.
Jon Acuff:I 100% agree that. You know, I'm doing a bunch of virtual events for clients and companies are saying, "How do we help our people? They're at home. They feel stuck. We're getting emails from them at 5am. And at midnight. No one has any of the shutdown techniques they used to have, which was drive home from the office. So they're working constantly. They feel thin. Culture's stressed because they're missing the microinteractions of bringing in the doughnuts, or seeing somebody in the break room." I'm getting a lot more heart questions than head questions than I did maybe five years ago, maybe 10 years ago. So I 100% agree with that. I'll give you two more questions. One that we had that asked because your bio mentions you've lived, worked and volunteered on every continent. That's amazing. I'm assuming that includes Antarctica. So what does
Richard Lui:It does not, actually.
Jon Acuff:Isn't Antarctica a continent?
Richard Lui:It is. I was talking with the press people about that. I was like, "Well" They said "No. People will say every continent and they know that you are not allowed to go to Antarctica." I was like,"Really? Are you sure? Because I'm gonna get that question."
Jon Acuff:And here's Jon Acuff asking that exact question. I'm deep in the bio. Like I'm line seven in the bio. We're not allowed to go to Antarctica? Is that new?
Richard Lui:Well, not unless you're a scientist, right?
Jon Acuff:Ah, not creative writers? They don't have creative writers there that go to write about the snow?
Richard Lui:I was going to be part of, there's a boat that goes full of scientists to Antarctica every year from Australia, focused on gender equity and science. And I was I was slated to go with them one year and then I had to change and I was like, "Finally, I get to go there, cover an important topic number one, but get to Antarctica as a journalist." So journalists can go depending on what they're covering as well. But it's generally very, very difficult to get there. I'm not gonna say you cannot go there if you're not one of these things, because I don't know that. But I know it's extremely difficult because they're worried obviously about our carbon footprint.
Jon Acuff:I was kind of going in with a like, I thought there was like a Carnival Cruise Line. If I was like, I want to do shuffleboard and penguins, then I just, like the world is my oyster. This is actually kind of disappointing to hear. Like who knew it was off limits? I've never wanted to go to Antarctica so badly until I knew I couldn't go.
Richard Lui:I'm not gonna say you can't go but I just know it's highly restricted. Because they're worried about carbon footprint.
Jon Acuff:So the last question, this one's a little ridiculous. You worked at 30 rock, we talked about that a little bit. If you had to put together a five person pickup basketball team, using names we know, like don't say we got a producer named Jerry Smith, who has an amazing wingspan. I don't hear any of that. Five names, pick up basketball, you're gonna compete against whoever, I don't know, another network. Maybe there's a really competitive underground five person basketball league, where all the stations play each other. And you know, who are you picking from 30 rock? And you know what, I'm gonna, you can include previous television shows. So if you're like, Tracy Morgan is all my like, whatever. Like who's who's on your team?
Richard Lui:Ooh, boy, I never thought you'd bring that up. I'd have to go with some of my news anchors, fellow news anchors that I know that are
Jon Acuff:Are they tall?
Richard Lui:Yes. Sam Brock, great correspondent. Very, very tall.
Jon Acuff:Sounds like an athlete. Just that last name is like solid.
Richard Lui:He is very, very, very good. I think I'd add along with Sam, probably, in terms of somebody has big wingspan and just could muscle you down the courts probably Joshua Johnson.
Jon Acuff:Joshua Johnson.
Richard Lui:Yeah.
Jon Acuff:He's a news anchor?
Richard Lui:He's a news anchor. You know...
Jon Acuff:Seth Meyers? Give me like
Richard Lui:I was about to say Seth.
Jon Acuff:You think he's got like an outside game, mostly?
Richard Lui:I put him probably at point.
Jon Acuff:Okay.
Richard Lui:I keep on, I'd keep him, you know, I don't know. He's no Steph Curry. Put it that way.
Jon Acuff:Yeah, yeah. Okay, so we got Seth Meyers, Joshua Johnson, Sam B Rock. I bet that's what he makes you call him. Does he make you call him Sam B Rock? Because if your name is Brock that just kind of flows off.
Richard Lui:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I do wish it was. B Rock would be, if you saw Sam, you would probably go. "Yeah. That is absolutely somebody that I might have on my team just because of how strong he is and how good he is."
Jon Acuff:Okay, last one, because you're on the team. This one I need from a sitcom. I need a sitcom. Like you got to somebody that's from a sitcom. And I'd go, "You know what, that's a really interesting choice."
Richard Lui:You know, I've never thought I'd have to go. You're right. I'd have to go with Tracy Morgan then, cuz he'd make everybody laugh, then. How about that? You good with that one?
Jon Acuff:That would be fun. I would have accepted Tina Fey cuz I feel like she would be very, team manager, maybe? Like a team manager I could see.
Richard Lui:Oh, yeah, we'd get nothing done. We've got, no, Alec. I'm sorry. I probably won't put on the team.
Jon Acuff:You feel he's more like a racquetball kind of squash guy?
Richard Lui:He's probably more of a tennis guy.
Jon Acuff:Tennis. Yeah.
Richard Lui:I think he's more of a tennis guy. Definitely.
Jon Acuff:That is so good. Well, I don't get to ask that question very often. It's probably the first slash last. That's super, though. Richard, this has been a blast. I'm so appreciative of you not only sharing about your book, which again, is Enough About Me, The Unexpected Power of Selflessness, but sharing how you approach mentors, sharing some of the funny sides of your job. Where can people find out more about you? I'd love to be able to say, "Hey, if you want to know more about Richard, like, here's where to go get the book or follow him online. He's got a podcast." Where can people go for more Richard Lui?
Richard Lui:Yeah, Jon, thanks so much. And this is, I had a great time. Questions I never have been asked so far. And I love that because it made me really dig in and think about this. I will say go check it out on social anywhere. And you can follow the book and what we're saying and doing about the book and plus the new movie that's coming out. And so just yeah, RichardLui.com and Richard Lui on all those handles.
Jon Acuff:Awesome. I appreciate you doing this with me and congrats on the book. And good luck working on the next one. I can't wait to see what that one's about.
Richard Lui:I'm going to ask my 15 minutes, Jon. So.
Jon Acuff:There you go.
Richard Lui:I'll be prepared.
Jon Acuff:Thanks, Richard.
Richard Lui:Okay, see ya.
Jon Acuff:Wasn't that a fun episode? I loved getting to have that conversation with Richard. There's not a lot of people who can make a goal out of being selfless. And his approach was really fun, really fascinating. And who knew that Seth Meyers was eating that much break room fish? There's not a lot of people that will bring fish to a workspace, heat it up in the microwave, in the break room. It's a bold move. It's a really bold move. That was fascinating to me. Thanks for listening to this episode. If you liked it, if you'd like any of the other episodes, please review it. I love the reviews you've been doing. They're so helpful and so encouraging. That's it for this week. I'll see you next week. And remember, all it takes is a goal.
Producer:Thanks for listening. To learn more about the All It Takes Is A Goal podcast and to get access to today's show notes, transcript, and exclusive content from Jon Acuff, visit Acuff.me/podcast. Thanks again for joining us. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of the All It Takes Is A Goal podcast.